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'The
State was going Down the Drain'
The undisputed supremo of the State BJP, Manohar Parrikar, assumed
charge as Goa chief minister on October 24. The man he supplanted in
the hot seat was Francisco Sardinha whose coalition government foundered
following a successful coup against it. Incidentally, this is the first
time ever that BJP has been able to form a government in Goa.
Notwithstanding the apparent impropriety vis-à-vis BJP's acquisition of
power in the State, the chief minister firmly maintains it has done so
rightfully, since it now commands the requisite majority in the State
Legislative Assembly.
A businessman-cum-politician, Parrikar has the distinction, a la J B
Gonsalves, of having won the Panjim Assembly Constituency seat twice on
the trot.
Known to be strict, incorruptible and committed to the task he takes in
hand, Parrikar is apparently keen on cleansing the State administration.
His action of cracking down on the corrupt and malfunctioning government
functionaries has been well appreciated by the local people. The nouveau
chief minister believes Goa cannot be made entirely corruption-free, but
vows to make it, as he puts it, almost corruption-free'.
In a no holds barred interview with Managing Editor VINAYAK NAIK, Chief
Minister Parrikar replied confidently, though not quite convincingly, to a
spate of probing questions. Excerpts from the interview.
Mr Chief Minister, I am sorry to say it,
but the manner in which your party has managed to come to power is far
from convincing.
So, what do I do? The situation was such that we had to either go for
re-election, for which they were not ready, because they wanted to somehow
survive, or we had to go for an alternative government, which may not have
been to my liking also. So, this is the best choice. So I took it.
I am not questioning the legality of the
BJP rule, but I certainly feel that your party has no moral right to be in
office.
I don't have that feeling. That is your feeling. My party's strength has
increased to a majority. Therefore, I staked the claim to form the
government.
You carried out a coup of sorts to oust
your predecessor Sardinha from office.
Where is the coup? A coup is something to take away from someone. My
support is my support. I was giving support to Sardinha with 10 MLAs. How
could I continue giving him support when my strength of MLAs has grown to
20? So when my strength grew, we became a majority party. So why should I
support Sardinha? Sardinha's strength was 11 still. I have not taken away
Sardinha's people, at least to stake my claim to form the government. Of
course, afterwards two of them came to my side. That's a different story.
Was the situation in Goa that bad to
necessitate a change in government?
Yes, it was very bad. If you can spend some time with me I will show you
some government files. You need to spend about two to three hours with me.
I'll show files which will prove that the State was going down the drain.
I am ready to show it to anybody.
But the BJP doubled its strength in the
State Assembly not through election but through defections.
You should have asked that question to Luizinho Faleiro when he increased
his strength from 21 to 26.
But you strongly disapproved of most of
the things Luizinho did. I am afraid, you haven't done anything different.
No, I have never approved of such tactics. In a war, because I do not
approve of these tactics, if I keep quiet I will be killed. During olden
times there was Dharma Yuddha. Once the sun had set, the war would stop.
How do I survive if I follow the Dharma Yuddha tactics when my opponents
are not following the same. This is, logically, bullet for bullet concept
of Julio Ribeiro. In a war, if I don't use a weapon, which is used by my
opponents, when it is required to be used, then I will damage myself.
Recently in Delhi you reportedly opposed
the idea of prohibiting political defections.
What I told a reporter in Delhi was that, in the current form, a complete
ban on defection will convert party leaders into dictators. Show me how I
can show dissent if my party leader decides to force me to vote in a
particular direction by issuing a whip. If defection is banned, then once
you elect a party leader, then he is going to be there till the next
election. Forget about defeating him.
That means you endorse the right of the
elected representative to defect.
What I am saying is this, defection is definitely bad. Every person
defecting should be disqualified from the seat and be asked to get
re-elected. But when do you term it defection? Voluntarily giving up
membership of a political party is, of course, defection. What about
natural opposition to a stand taken by the leader of a party? For example,
I do not agree with the leader of the party on a particular matter. How do
I express my dissent in Parliament? I represent the people who do not
agree with my leader.
Could you elaborate on that?
In Panjim, for example, Panjimites do not want certain things to be done.
My leader, assuming that there is someone else as my leader, wants that
thing to be done. How do I represent my people and raise their voice over
the voice of my leader when he issues the whip. The moment the whip is
issued, I am forced to vote for it against my wish. So have you thought of
that part of it?
That may be true in some cases, but in
Goa, you can't deny that the licence to defect has been terribly misused
by our elected representatives.
Please know that defection has two angles. One is voluntary in which you
leave the party membership, the other is expressing dissent and being
forced out of it. For technical purpose, that is also defection. Now if
someone does that he loses his membership for a cause he is supposed to
fight for the people who have elected him. I think you got my point.
Now coming to your government, your
cabinet is in no way smaller than that of Luizinho, of whom you were
overtly critical.
I would love to have a small cabinet. But, frankly speaking, I have
realized that a small cabinet would not have given justice. When I see the
number of portfolios, the number of files, the number of works taken up by
departments, it is not quite possible to have a small cabinet. Every
minister is loaded with two or three departments. There are about 50
departments. So, if there are only six members (ministers) with each one
handling one department, then it's almost an impossible task.
Here I am not justifying the size of my cabinet. I still feel that six is
sufficient. But six efficient people are sufficient. In Politics there is
no training to make them efficient. Why are there 14 IAS officers? If well
trained IAS officers' requirement is 14, then you can understand what I am
trying to say. Just because the State is small, the number of works does
not become small.
It's like say in a big office you require one clerk, one peon and one
accountant. A small office also requires one clerk and one accountant. A
clerk and an accountant cannot replace each other. So this type of
syndrome is also there. Why don't we join two or three departments and
have them under one head? Why this question is not being asked?
But surely that does not make a case for
having a 14-strong cabinet.
As I said, 14 ministers may not be the right figure, but 6 or eight
ministers may not be an effective figure either, unless we carry out
administrative reforms wherein files and many things do not come to the
ministers at all. The present system is such that the minister is required
to attend to everything. I am trying to work out a system by which some
work is eliminated from the minister.
Today people come to the chief minister with all kinds of problems. If one
sarpanch is giving him trouble, the person comes directly to the chief
minister because he is very sure that in between either the system has
gone astray or he thinks only the chief minister can redress his
grievance.
Are you going to hold 'darbars' a la
Luizinho?
No, I don't believe in such things. Decentralisation is the by-word. And I
will do it. By next week you will realise that decentralisation in respect
of grievances is being taken care of.
You have accommodated almost all those
who either joined or supported your party in your cabinet. And
interestingly you have sidelined some of your own die-hard BJP MLAs. Are
you not apprehensive of a revolt from within your party?
Why are you worried about that? I am also a die-hard BJP. I know their
sentiments much better than the press or any opposition can understand it.
It is ultimately for me to judge whether the die-hard BJP person is
disturbed or not. But if I am sure that he is not unreasonably disturbed,
there is no point in speculating it.
Tell me, how stable is your government
going to be?
Stability is sometimes like a big rock. A big rock is very stable. Will
you prefer a government like a rock or like a ball which can bounce?
Stability is a concept which depends on the functioning of the government.
If stability was the only criterion, then why did the Congress fail after
45 years? They were very stable. If the Congress failed after such a
strong stability of 45 years, it means stability is not the criterion.
There are some other criteria involved. Therefore, even in six months you
can make a difference, which a stable government in five years can't do.
That doesn't mean I am going to stay for just six months. I am just
explaining the stability aspect.
Honestly, how long do you forsee
continuing as Goa's CM?
Three and half years. You see the public support for me after three
months. No MLA will think of leaving. Even some of the opposition people
are already thinking of supporting me.
Are you confident of holding the flock
of your MLAs together for that long?
Of course, this is the first change of government in which there was no
exchange of money. I think you are aware of it. This is the first change
of government in which MLAs didn't have to be stacked at a remote place. I
told them, if we can't stay together for five days, how can we stay
together for five years. It is better if something is going wrong, let it
go wrong now than go wrong after six months.
Apparently, you have set about the task
of punishing corrupt officials very enthusiastically.
I don't have any enthusiasm doing that. The action against corrupt
officials is a routine exercise and not a special drive. If I launch a
special drive, then the number of corrupt officials could get into three
figures. I don't want to create that situation. I don't want to create a
panic situation.
Many of the people who have been corrupt have been forced into corruption.
Corruption is bad, obviously. But there are compulsions sometimes. A
person who is fleecing the people is corrupt to the bone. I can assure
right now that such persons will be taken care of. The rest should correct
themselves. This is an opportunity for them to correct. I believe and feel
that many have decided to do that. My friends are telling me that previous
week there were three cases of bribes being returned - home delivery. Two
cases were in Panjim and one in Vasco.
Do you think you'll succeed in making
Goa absolutely corruption-free?
Absolutely corruption-free is not possible. I want to make Goa a very
efficient and almost corruption-free State. How can you make it entirely
corruption-free? If evil was not there, then Rama would not have needed
soldiers and military. As simple as that.
Now, tersely, tell me something about
the agenda you have set for yourself during your tenure as Goa's CM.
My plans are already in action. I want to give a sensitive administration
for the common man. My administration is already sensitive. I want to make
it more sensitive. When that happens, then there is no need for people to
come to the chief minister's residence and trouble him with small, small
matters.
You haven't quite answered my question.
I want to put Goa's financial state on the right track, generate
employment, reduce corruption, make the administration people-sensitive -
common man-sensitive etc.
Corruption and administration apart,
there are so many problems plaguing Goa, water supply, for instance.
How can water problem go overnight?
At St. Inez where our office is located
we have been going through acute water crisis for months now. I remember
having sounded you about it.
That is your individual case. Overall, in Panjim, the water situation is
much better than what it was five years back, say, even two years back.
Infra-structural requirements of a few hundred crores cannot be developed
overnight. It will take some time. But I can tell you one thing, you may
not get enough water, but you will have the telephone picked up by the
engineers with a smile.
What about industries? Are we going to
be in for yet another industrial policy?
I have told the industries minister to formulate our industrial policy.
Let's not discuss all this now. What will happen is that their activity
will be hampered. Let them work out. The industrial policy should be ready
in the next one or two months.
On environment, health, transport,
irrigation, I am sure, you have made at least tentative plans to improve
the situation on these fronts.
There are a hundred and one questions. A hundred and one answers cannot be
given in a short period. What is important is, if people feel that they
are getting the administration which is sensitive towards them, then many
of the problems get automatically solved.
What about the financial crunch? How is
it going to affect your development plans?
I am not a bhikari. I have been landed in a difficult financial situation
because these people have spent almost all their budgeted money, in most
cases, within seven months. But I will not go with a begging bowl. I know
we can generate funds here.
But with BJP ruling at the Centre, you
will agree, it's a considerable advantage vis-à-vis financial aid from
Delhi.
You don't understand Economics at all. It's not the BJP but the entire
Planning Commission which decides these matters. Maybe a few additional
benefits can be obtained when the ruling party at the Centre and at the
State is the same. Sometimes from some discretionary quota some amount can
be granted to a state as a one-time settlement, or a soft loan.
But even your predecessors have
confirmed that with the BJP at the Centre the then Congress government in
Goa had a bit of a problem seeking Central aid.
If they have said that, they are fools. They never understood the process
of planning and Centre-State relationship.
Questions
or Comments? Please write to us at: goatoday@goa-world.com
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